The leading online consultant, Teresita Dabrieo (TERESITA), interviews Declan Dunn (DECLAN) about how to use the Web Business Model to generate sales for businesses online.

Recently I hooked up with one of the Web's innovators, an internationally recognized coach to consultants. She's an expert at designing systems to help consultants attract and sell clients consulting services. She helped me put together a foolproof way to locate, attract, and sell Web consulting services.

Her name is Teresita Dabrieo; you may have heard of her because she's ALL over the Internet. AOL sponsors her business chats. She has spoken nationally at acclaimed seminars, her articles have been published by leading newsletters and magazines, and she's often quoted as an Internet authority.

Her background is in computer consulting, where she built two, million dollar consulting practices from scratch. And in the last few years, she has helped others do the same, replicating and in some cases even exceeding her own success. (Visit her Web Site at www.dabrieo.com and see for yourself.)

Not long ago Teresita and I teamed up to create the ultimate self study course for Web Consultants. It's called The Maximum Cash Flow System for Web Consultants. The interview is an excerpt from this course and shows how Teresita applies her expertise to marketing consulting services on the Web

DECLAN: People say, "Where do I start with a Web Site?" and they always try to start big, when they can start small. If you are a Web consultant, you must teach businesses how to take the simple, profitable approach. For example, I read an article that counted 89 Web sites about Sandra Bullock.

TERESITA: Right.

DECLAN: No one was selling, these were just fan clubs.

TERESITA: Right. And they weren't doing anything for them.

DECLAN: They were just a place to talk about Sandra. But I thought, what if I was releasing a movie starring Sandra. What better place to promote it than these sites?

TERESITA: Exactly where they should be advertising.

DECLAN: Should I set up a separate Web site, or should I go out to 89 Sandra Bullock Web sites and say, "Hey, would you like to work with us?"

TERESITA: I think I'd rather advertise at the Sandra Bullock fan Web Sites instead of trying to drive them to this brand new site. They may or may not even know that it exists, and they may or may not want to visit a new "commercial" site, just for one movie.

DECLAN: Target specific marketing.

TERESITA: Exactly. Exactly. Very target specific.

DECLAN: And that's what we're talking about, understanding how business works online. That's how it works. They meet where they want to about what they are interested in. Their passion.

TERESITA: And where they want to be. Not where you want them to be.

DECLAN: Those 89 Sandra Bullock Web sites are content that's already created, that already has an audience of people who "kind of like" Sandra.

TERESITA: No, they LOVE Sandra!

DECLAN: I mean, they're nuts about Sandra! These special interests that people have are what you're tapping into. People meet where they want to meet. Stop trying to force them to come to your Web site. If they are happy at a site, why not tap into that passion instead of trying to direct it somewhere else?

TERESITA: Right. There was a woman who I met on the Australian Cattle Dog List Serv. I have an Australian Cattle Dog. And she saw my signature, and she said, "Well, how can I be a consultant?" I said, "Well, what are your passions? And she really only had a couple. One of them were her six Australian cattle dogs.

DECLAN: Wow.

TERESITA: And I said, "You know what? You know what would be a great thing for you to do? You should put a Web Site for the Australian Cattle Dog (ACD) community. You can advertise here on the List Serv." She ended up creating a Web Site for rescuing Australian Cattle Dogs. She looked at a bunch of other Web sites, and said, "Well, how can I make money?"

I said, "Well, first off, you're going to get your name known. Get pictures, stories, and put in a little database so that you could find cattle dogs that were out there to be rescued." Then I told her how you could advertise, because all these people who visit love their dogs. They love their pets. They're like me. I'll buy anything now for my dog. And, all of a sudden, by helping out this local cause she got tremendous online exposure. She quit her job and started designing all of these sites for people because they looked at what she did and said, "Wow. She did all these great things, and she shares my same passion for dogs, so now I'm going to go out, and I'm going to hire her to do Web consulting for me."

DECLAN: And what better way to learn how to Web consult than to set up something like that. The same thing I did. The passion, the benefit, is all that matters to your visitors. That passion can lead to selling other products and services. Once you get the people there, you're in a very powerful position.

TERESITA: That is what it's all about.

DECLAN: In fact, we're talking about content here. I really hate the word content because it's such a vague word, and it's one of the most overrated Web consultant words. Content is really the way that you communicate and tap into that passion of your audience, and the benefits, how you spell out the benefits to them so they can go through your sales process. It is a marketing tool.

The Web isn't about computers, it's about people. About customers. About making money, not software. Web Consultants will be filling in the holes of technology with tested, proven marketing savvy. It's not about bits or bytes, it's about dollars and cents.

TERESITA: Exactly. You have all these keys to optimizing your Web consulting business. We talked about content, now is a good time to segway to our next point, which is more about how business works online and an understanding of the Web business model.

DECLAN: Exactly. And content was really the lead in. But there's a term you're going to really become familiar with called intellectual property, which is a fancy way of saying, "My mind created this content." As a Web Consultant, people are paying you to think. But you have to show them you know what you are doing. Owning and selling content is not as important as building credibility.

TERESITA: Right.

DECLAN: Many Web Consultants limit access to their knowledge. They will not distribute their content because they are afraid of someone stealing it. But if you do not distribute it, you cannot sell the process. Like you say, sell the process - working with you to solve their problem - because that is where the real money is.

Technology has always had a way of striking fear into people (and raising salaries for overpaid techies). Those days are slipping by as the Web evolves into a marketplace filled with customers. It may be overpowered by a computer, but it doesn't have to take technical genius to make money online.

TERESITA: Exactly. As opposed to selling the content, you're going to sell the process. We're about to do something where we're going to be selling the process with my consulting for $15,000 each, but then, if we talk about selling each of the books, those go for $500. That's the difference between selling content and selling process.

DECLAN: Content helps you work them up the food chain though.

TERESITA: Yes. You can work them up the food chain. When you're working in terms of getting away from just copyrighting content and saying, "It's mine, it's mine, it's mine, I created it. It's all that I've got," you generate interest in your process. Get to the point of distributing content for free so that you can sell services and build relationships. As I was saying, you can send my e-zine and my articles anywhere you want, and I don't care. You know what someone said to me a few weeks ago? Someone from that small paper, the Wall Street Journal, wrote me and said, "Someone sent me an article that you wrote, and I really loved it, and I want to interview you for my column." And I said, "Who forwarded you my article?"

DECLAN: I'm going to sue them!

TERESITA: Right, I'm going to sue them. Sue them for helping me. More likely I will thank them for generating me a lead.

DECLAN: If you let them distribute it, put your contact info and your copyright info on it, that's a lead generator. That's what we're talking about. The price of it, if you're distributing it online, could be looked at as free, but it's part of your marketing cost. The price has gone down, but the value has gone up.

TERESITA: Oh, it's skyrocketed. The value has skyrocketed.

DECLAN: Well, I have a guy, for instance, who doesn't get this. He keeps trying to sell his $20 book, and then he wonders why he's not making any money as an entrepreneur, and I look at him and go, "Just look, you're making $5 a book. I know you love the book, and it's a great book, but you know what you should do? You should give away the book and get back into services because you're going to get ten to twenty times the money you get from just the product.

Why Email is the Most Efficient Marketing Tool... According to Inverse's first email review, 91% of all email arrives within 5 minutes. Attempts to send or receive an e-mail message were successful 95% of the time.

TERESITA: Right. Right. Well, he's not getting it. You should give me his name, and then I can just buy the book from him and give it away. Sell other stuff from it.

DECLAN: It's probably the best thing you could do for him, though, because that would be advertising. I did a joint venture with a gentleman once. He videotaped one of my seminars. I mean, it was a huge six-camera shoot for goodness sakes. It was a great video. I could never have afforded to do this. He sat there and says, "I want to be able to sell your product, and I want you to be able to sell it to your customers." In other words, I'm paying for the shoot. Can we make a deal?" It took all of about three ticks to go yeah, yeah, yeah! So we made the deal. He put contact info for me. I get a solid generation of leads every month. I've got a great product. I'm selling it, he's selling it. Do you know what would happen if I started negotiating on copyrights and percentage and deals? I would have ended up limiting my market share.

TERESITA: Yes. You would have ended up limiting your market share. One of my friends is getting ready to put up her book online. I was talking about her with this, and she said every time someone reads her $15 book, they buy her $165 product. And I said, "This is difficult. This is really difficult." And she said, " I know, it is difficult because I can't get enough people to read my book."

I said, "OK, we're going to give it away for free." She said, "Oh, I don' know that I could do that." And I said, "How much does each book cost you?" "2.50." "OK, we're going to give away each book for free. That's exactly what we're going to do." Because every time someone reads her book, they buy a $165 product. When people read articles that I've written, they go and they pass it along to other magazines. People then buy my stuff.

DECLAN: That's a great one. So her lead cost was $2.50.

TERESITA: Right.

DECLAN: Instead of selling the book, which she'd still have a lead cost for, her lead cost became $2.50. There's one guy I just read about who is trying this out. When you visit his Web Site and give your demographic information, he'll pay you $2.

TERESITA: Cool.

DECLAN: Two dollars for coming to my Web site. I'm sure he has a limit , but basically if you take this action, you'll get paid. That's his lead cost, and what he's doing is getting people to read his marketing materials. What he's testing out is saying, "Hey, I can put something into your hands for working with me," whatever that is, a free report, money, whatever it is, you're really talking about lead cost.

The Internet pioneer days are over. The Wild West had its appeal, but the settlers are the ones who really profit. The settlers are your target market. They congregate ont he web, and once you know how to reach them, you can take advantage of this opportunity.

TERESITA: Wow.

DECLAN: In fact, I've even had one guy who did a mailing of my product's sales letter to his clients, paid me for it at a lower cost, and I ended up getting paid $50 per lead (his wholesale price). Now I wasn't making much in the front end, but I've never been paid for a lead, and he's sending me all these leads.

TERESITA: You were paid for a lead. Wow.

DECLAN: I gave him the product. I gave him it at a wholesale price. He gave me the addresses and the $50 profit per sale. I made my real money on back end products and services I sold to those same people.

TERESITA: I hope that everyone sees there are so many ways that you can take this intellectual property, this content, and you can use it as a marketing tool and as a lead generator. There are so many ways that you can do that, both for yourself as a consultant, and for your customers because, again, we're talking about the Web business model and how a business works online.

DECLAN: Exactly. And one of the nice things is if you start working with other people, you're going to be able to distribute their free reports, and also give them a plug. I do that for people I work with. They have some great products, and it adds value to the products that I'm putting together. It's a natural advertising mechanism, and they look at me and go, "Can I put your 20 page report with contact and order information in my package? Would that offend you?" It enables him to get the word out, to get this magical thing which people call exposure-

TERESITA: Right. But no, more importantly, it's exposure to people who have already paid money. That's what I love. I mean, if someone's already paid you $500, and really I almost don't care what it's for as long as it's a business thing, just call my office and I will give you all sorts of free stuff that you can give them. I don't care because this is a real person, a real business owner with real problems.

DECLAN: That person saying, "Give me a free report," wouldn't ask for it unless it would add value to their package.

PointCast is Slowing Us All Down... Another Reason to Avoid Push Media An interesting fact from an online study; only 1% of people online use PointCast, but that Push Media consumes over 13% of the total bandwidth of the Internet. It slows all of us down.

TERESITA: Exactly. So what other points are there in the Web business model?

DECLAN: I want to share with you a study that I read. One of the common things as a Web consultant is to think, "We'll make your product the hottest. We're going to position it. We're going to create a brand name. We're going to splash it out to everybody and scream to these people who are interested in it." Because that's the way that normal "mass media" advertising works. But the Web is not like mass media. In a study by Business Week, 57% of people online said they go to the same sites instead of wandering around like nomads. Surfing the Web is not the truth.

TERESITA: That is me. You just described me. I used to have 250 bookmarks, and now, I have nine. I have nine bookmarks. There's only two of those sites that I visit weekly. One of them's All My Children, but-

DECLAN: I know. I remember being in college, and you would see people-It was like this amazing thing, fifty people watching All My Children.

TERESITA: Right. But you have to build your schedule around it, too. Those are the type of people who I want as my customers, people who will build their schedule around me. That's really interesting about the Harris poll, and I really agree with that. Did they go back to the same sites?

DECLAN: Yes, the illusion that everyone's going to go surfing the Web is insane. They found that 89% of those people online use E-mail, and of those, one-third of those consider themselves members of some community online. I just hate that word, community. Can you imagine going to a business, "Hey, we're going to create a community." No, it's a meeting place. It's a place they come to talk about their interests, about what their passion is. I imagine if All My Children had a little site where people could post or talk about what was going on with the show-

TERESITA: You still haven't visited that Web site, have you?

DECLAN: No, I don't-I'm not an All My Children fan.

TERESITA: You have to visit that site just for the model of it because they have a bunch of different chat boards, OK. They have 25,000 women a day visiting that site, a day.

DECLAN: Now, you're saying women?

TERESITA: Yes, I know that. I know that there's 25,000 women because of the surveys.

DECLAN: Oh, I know there's tons of men that watch that, too.

TERESITA: Yes, but they have 25,000 women visiting that site every day, because there are all these chat boards, discussions, and places that you can vote. Like you can vote on the plot, and you could say, "Oh, well, I can't believe that this person's about to sleep with this other person," and you can vote yes or no if that's going to happen. And what's interesting is that ABC also watches this site. The writers watch the site, the discussion, and keep it going. I really like the idea of a meeting place. I'm not going to use the word community anymore.

DECLAN: We've got to watch because one thing about online Web consultants, people online in general, get into this terminology where they talk about community and communication. If I'm going to go to a business and talk to them about community, they won't understand. And let me show you the last three statistics that really bear this out, that it's not a community, it's a meeting place. Of those people who said they were in those communities, 42% say it was related to their profession. 42%. The majority.

TERESITA: Wow.

DECLAN: 35% said their community is a social group, All My Children would fit in there. 18% say it revolves around a hobby, like fishing. What we're finding is that most people are going to something that relates to their profession and gives them professional information. Those are the target meeting places that people are going to. That's where they're meeting, that's where they're going to, and if you can either joint venture with the person that has this site, which can be tricky, maybe buy advertising-in some way, shape, or form, you want to be able to reach those people.

Why Aren't Women Buying Online ? About 40% of Web visitors are women; according to a survey, 78% of people actually ordering online are men. We can't turn this into a marketplace until women buy as well.

TERESITA: You definitely want to be able to reach those people because they keep coming back again and again and again to have the discussion. One of my sites is a meeting place site because it's evolved around their profession, it's evolved around being a computer consultant, and what's really interesting is, every too weeks, we do a change on the site. We put up a new zine or whatever, and it's fascinating because when I put up a new product promotion or when I put up a new free report, we get the same names of people who keep coming back again and again and again.

DECLAN: When they come to my site, I invite them to get on my mailing list of tips. I don't like to call them tips, but really consulting information, ideas that I have. I simply share what I've learned in the week with people. I E-mail it out to them, and it's amazing the feedback I get, not to mention being able to sell my products and services. Right at the bottom, I say, "Hey, do you like this? Pass it on."

TERESITA: Right.

DECLAN: I don't care. It's my copyright. I do copyright it and say, "Listen, this is mine. Feel free to pass it on. All I ask is tell me where you sent it. You don't have to, but I'd just like to know who you're reaching." It's is so non-intrusive, but it also helps develop that meeting place. It helps you deliver to their doorstep exactly what they want, which is information that helps them advance their business. In fact, one guy got an E-mail from me, one E-mail; for a $97 subscription to my bi-monthly newsletter, I also send them bi-weekly E-mail updates. He got that tip, and he said, "That one E-mail alone was worth the price of your subscription."

TERESITA: Wow. Wow. That's really terrific because someone really saw a value there, and not because they bought a product that was a $100, but because they saw the value and because they understood. I think that's why, when we're talking about these statistics here in this poll, 42% were involved in an online community related to their profession. Because people see a lot of value in things that are related to their work. They want to advance. And so this 42% related to their profession really doesn't surprise me, and then this gentleman saying that it has a lot of value for him. Just that one piece of E-mail had value that was worth that whole subscription. He really makes sense.

DECLAN: I tested it, too. I sent out an E-mail to the list, and I said, "OK, guys, I have posted a secret message on our Members Only section, and I want to see how many of you go pick it up. If you do, there's a $50 bonus in it for you."

TERESITA: Yes.

DECLAN: And I found that still, most of the people didn't go to the Web site. So then I tried the same offer directly through E-mail, and it shot through the roof, because they just hit respond, and I got my response immediately. I didn't make them work. We all check our mail every day, so why not develop that list because every site that I've seen making tremendous success has a huge mailing list. When CNET reviewed my site, they emailed that review to one million people. That's what made the award very special, but without those million people, if they posted it at their site, take it from me - a very limited increase in traffic. And the funny thing is with CNET's review, it helped increase my traffic on a monthly basis by ten times.

TERESITA: Wow. That's amazing.

DECLAN: That's the power of a mailing list.

TERESITA: That is the power of a mailing list. It is so difficult to have people respond to things up on the Web, and when we do things into our own mailing list, we get actually-It's kind of frightening. We get a 10%-22% response sending internal E-mail to our own mailing list. And it is absolutely incredible what we use for that.

DECLAN: Yes.

TERESITA: Retail stores, they also use mailing lists, and I don't know if people think about this, but they use catalogues because catalogues come to you. You don't have to go out to Chadwick. You don't have to go out to-Teresita's going to use all of her examples-You don't have to go out to Victoria's Secret. You don't have to go out to any of these places. It just comes to you, you circle all the pages, call them, and then give them your money.

DECLAN: As a Web consultant, one of the best things you can do is take businesses out of their mass media outlook- mass media just means television, radio, even magazines. What we're developing is target-specific marketing online - the development of the list is very traditional. If you talk about results within the Web business model, you're talking about something that's made sense not just now, but for hundreds of years. This is just a new way to distribute the message.

Selling technology is the best way to ruin your business. Most Web Consultants think that's what they should sell. Which is why they make less. They are banking on people paying for technical knowledge. Meanwhile the real profits that come from marketing products and services remain untouched.

TERESITA: What if you, as a Web consultant, started talking to speakers and authors, people like that, and instead of just giving them their average old, every day Web site like everybody else sells, you're going to talk to them about providing a meeting place for the people who read their books. Then they can go out and get more speaking engagements, sell audio tapes and video tapes and seminars and all sorts of other things. Don't you think that the customer, the author, the speaker in this case, is going to look at you and say, "Wow, he has a whole process figured out how to do this." He's not going to say, "Well, I can get a Web site for $99 a month." That's not what they're going to say.

DECLAN: No, and that's not what they should get either.

TERESITA: But that's not what they're going to say because you have put together all of these components. You've put together the added value, you've increased your cost per transaction, you've enhanced it, and you've given them something valuable that is related to something that they really want to do.

DECLAN: Here's a process you can sell yourself. It works like a charm. We're going to invite people to get your free report, your free issue, some reason to give you contact information. You've got to trade value for value. That is the business model. They're giving you contact info. Give them good value, the bi-weekly email report. I sat down with one client and said, "You know what I need you to do? I need 26 reports. What does that mean? Maybe two paragraphs apiece. Even a page if you're a real workaholic. Twenty-six pages, and for one year, I'm going to E-mail those every other week with your new offerings to your list. You'll have a whole year's worth of advertising done." If they're a writer or speaker, you'll have it all there. You cut and paste, and you send it out to them.

TERESITA: Wow, that's powerful.

DECLAN: It's a great close to close. Because the client looked at me and said, "You know something. I get it." And you know what's the worst case scenario if we just stink up the whole joint and don't do a good job? He's got a mailing list. Results.

TERESITA: One of my clients actually just sent me an E-mail saying, "Teresita, hits are down lower than they have been in the last eight months, and revenues are up 23%. Why?" And I said, "Well, Beth, it's because you're not going around the universe anymore with your goofy-butt posts everywhere. She's focused in on eight different places where people go to talk about the eight problems that she solves, and she posts each of those places every two weeks. And I said, "So you've got fewer people, but they're the ones who are going to pay you the money instead of people who are just walking around looking for stuff for free.

DECLAN: What's funny is she's not working as hard-

TERESITA: Right.

DECLAN: Bringing more value to herself, bringing more value to her customers by paying attention to them. You know what's really funny? It's almost like we've got this, again, mass media thing of millions of people make you millions of dollars, when most people I know making millions of dollars don't deal with millions of people.

Web Users are Changing Biggest growing groups are under 18 and over 55; average surfer spnds less than one hour per day on the Web. Entertainment sites account for 14% of online time. PC METER

TERESITA: Right.

DECLAN: We're not talking multi-million dollar corporations. We're talking individuals who are being able to develop value. It's the old rule, you know. 90% of your business comes from 10% of your customers.

TERESITA: Well, one of the things I tell people is, if I had 500 people who each paid me $10,000, I would be a pretty darn happy human being. You know, and I'm just going to let everybody else here do that math. Just imagine if I had 500 people who every year, year end, year out, because I gave them all sorts of great things, they paid me $10,000. I don't know that I would care about a whole lot, I've got to tell you.

DECLAN: As a Web consultant, the best advice you could give to businesses is, "This is where they're meeting, here's our message, here's all you have to do." I mean, when I told my client he had to give me twenty-six pages for an entire year, and do nothing else-

TERESITA: Oh, he must have fallen over. That is such a brilliant illustration.

DECLAN: It's a process because I've tested it. E-mail consulting is your life. So many people think, "Well, you know, I've got to be available via phone." You're never available via phone. How many people do you get in touch with on the telephone?

TERESITA: I would like people here to try calling me on the phone. I'm happy to answer E-mail all day long because I can answer E-mail from anywhere. I mean, almost, well almost anywhere-I can't answer E-mail from the top of the lift at Heavenly, but I can answer-

DECLAN: You will.

TERESITA: I will. No, I won't. I'm not going to bring it with me when I'm skiing, but you can answer E-mail from everywhere. It's your life, and people really value it.

DECLAN: The fact is, you can actually contact even bigger clients with E-mail. If they're not interested in your message, they hit delete.

TERESITA: Right.

DECLAN: That's the Web business model. That's how it works. Every time I talk about E-mail, people get this look in their eye. The one thing about the guy with the twenty-six articles. He said, "Oh, Declan, do I have to answer all those E-mails? Do I have to do all this stuff?" I said, "What I'm going to set up for you is an automated marketing process, where every response, using autoresponders, which are E-mail on demand. If you don't know what they are, learn quick.

TERESITA: Wow. Talk about being able to give value to your customers as a Web Consultant. If you could go and give them an answer like that. You would ink the deal.

DECLAN: The online business model is very, very simple. Your content is your marketing tool. Get it out there. Let people use it. Use the words, pass it on. Use your intellectual property, not as something to sell individually-I'm not against selling to individual things, that's not the point, but use it to get more value, to distribute your message. Create online meeting places, or at least understand that that's where people congregate, where they meet, and that's where the message will get through. Study what works for the markets. What works for the online market place are targeted E-mail lists, targeted, volunteered.

TERESITA: Make sure that, not just in the targeted E-mail, but targeted specific lists. When you're doing your advertising and whatever else that you try to do on the Internet, make sure that that's also targeted. Not just your E-mail, but also your advertising.

DECLAN: Exactly. Do the same thing online that you do offline. That's what it's all about.

If you would like to learn more about the Web Consultant Maximum Cash Flow System, email ( consult@webletter.net ) or call (530) 873-3637. You can also visit my Web Site, www.webletter.net.